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Why is considering customer experience in digital transformation essential? – PODCAST

Considering customer experience in digital transformation should be embedded throughout the process and never be an afterthought.

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Considering customer experience in digital transformation should be embedded throughout the process and never be an afterthought.

In our latest podcast, Clarasys' own Tom Carpenter, Loïc Le Fouest and Adam Uddin discuss why considering customer experience in digital transformation should be a key focus, some of the actions to take and questions to ask in order to prioritize your efforts, the importance of testing and understanding your customer journey, why being agile and iterative helps the process, and the role your employees play in the digital transformation.

Listen here or read on for an edited transcript.

Tom Carpenter: Welcome to another episode of CX Talks. I am your host today, Tom Carpenter, founder, and one of our CX specialists of the CX practice here at Clarasys. I'm joined today by Loïc Le Fouest and Adam Uddin. And we're going to be talking about how it's important to think about customer experience in a digital transformation.

Tom Carpenter: Now, hopefully, some of you have listened to the earlier episode in the series where we highlighted the four key areas to consider when thinking about digital transformation, those areas are business, customer, organization, and technology. Hopefully, you'll enjoy the session today but do also listen to deep dives on the other three areas of organisation, business and technology which will be following along from this episode in the series.

Tom Carpenter: So before we kick off I'd just like to give Adam and Loïc a bit of a chance to introduce themselves to you. So Loïc, do you want to introduce yourselves to our listeners?

Loïc Le Fouest: Absolutely. Good morning, Tom. Thanks for having me over again at CX Talks.

Loïc Le Fouest: So my name is Loic I'm one of the CX leads here at Clarasys and I've got a background in service design and embedding culture of customer-centricity. Most recently been doing a number of CX and digital transformation projects both from the initial discovery, but also then going into implementation and seeing how the technology will actually end up impacting the customer.

Loïc Le Fouest: So, yeah, really excited to join you on, on this one folks.

Tom Carpenter: Great to have you Loïc, and Adam?

Adam Uddin: Morning both. Thank you for having me. So my background is primarily in customer experience, product management and any elements that cover user-centred design. I've got a bit of a mixed bag in terms of industry expertise.

Adam Uddin: So, done quite a bit in the public sector utilities, financial services, information services, but primarily my focus has always been on how can we help our customers, customers, and really enhance their experience so great to be here.

Tom Carpenter: Great to have you, and thank you for making it in early in the morning after our charity quiz last night.

Tom Carpenter: So you're going to have to forgive us for our husky tones, not normally this husky.

Tom Carpenter: So let's kick-off then, so when you're thinking about digital transformation from a customer's perspective, where do you kind of start Adam?

Why should customer experience in digital transformation be a priority?

Adam Uddin: So from my perspective, I wrote an article a few months ago, where I spoke about CX strategy.

Adam Uddin: I think for any strategic transformation program, you need to think about ultimately where you're going to play because you can't play everywhere. And when it comes to customer experience, this is just as important as anything else. If you try to create a great customer experience for everyone, what usually ends up happening is you create a very average experience for everyone and a great experience for no one.

Adam Uddin: So you can't play everywhere and you need to try to prioritize that ultimately. And some of the ways we sometimes consider how to look at that is some techniques such as segmentation and personas, but ultimately it's just about painting a picture of your target customer group and what their customer profile might look like.

Loïc Le Fouest: I've got actually a few simple tips. Cause despite the way you said it Adam it sounds so obvious. And you would think anyone that embarks on some kind of digital transformation will of course consider the customer. What is actually fascinating I find is some people do that at the end.

Loïc Le Fouest: The solutions there, they basically just push the button, it's live, and they're like, 'oh, well that has an impact on our customers doesn't it?'. So don't be those people, don't be that organization. A simple thing to do is when you're having those initial discussions really painting that strategy, understanding where you are going to play in, just make sure you're asking yourself, 'how is this digital transformation going to help us create a deeper relationship with the customer?' 'How is it going to help us provide a more tailored experience?' These simple questions, just to make sure you've thought through actually where you're going with this digital transformation and the effect it's going to have on your customers in the long term.

Tom Carpenter: That's a really good point Loïc as well, I think, cause a lot of organizations are trying to be customer-centric, but they still barely talk to the actual customers as well. So getting an understanding of them and bringing them in and really early on in that journey as well. It's really, really important.

Tom Carpenter: So you've worked out where to play and you've worked out the customer is important. Where would you recommend people go to next?

Once the importance of considering customer experience in digital transformation is realised, what's next?

Loïc Le Fouest: One thing I'd say to get started- the end to end technology will impact the end to end journey of the customers. So if you understand where to play and your different customer personas, a good next point is making sure you've almost looked already at that end to end journey.

Loïc Le Fouest: What it's gonna look like from the customer perspective. And, that helps you align the technology and the digital transformation to make sure you've covered all of those key areas, all of those moments that matter.

Adam Uddin: Completely agree. I think from my perspective, exactly as you mentioned, Tom, don't make assumptions about your customers and what they want - get out there and talk to them. Also, decide what it is that you want to understand about your customers in particular. So for instance, we were just talking about segmentation.

Adam Uddin: There are lots of ways you can do that. And again, you don't want to try to do everything.

Adam Uddin: So, is it, for instance, your customer's behavioural traits that you want to find out about? Or maybe for instance, you're launching a new food delivery service and you want to find out a bit about their demographics and like their geographical location.

Adam Uddin: So you might do some demographic segmentation, find out about age, income, their likes, their dislikes, interests, all sorts of things. And then in order to take that really to the next level, you want to try to create almost like a fictional character of what that customer looks like and base that on data. Cause sometimes people try to do personas in like a really quick and dirty way.

Adam Uddin: And they use, again, as we mentioned before their like internal assumptions of what they think customers might look like. Don't do that, get out there and validate it, using some real data. So that you're really basing your decisions on data.

Loïc Le Fouest: Yeah, I completely agree. And, and your point before Adam around, you can't necessarily play everywhere at the same time, prioritize. There's one word I just need to use here because Tom, I've not even been to a pub with you and not hear you say the word agile. 

Tom Carpenter: Agile is life Loïc. 

 Loïc Le Fouest: There, it is.

Loïc Le Fouest: But one of the agile principles is, is being able to prioritize and slice things up. So. A lot of people embark on digital transformations and they've got this big complex set of technology of legacy technology. That's all mingled together. And it, it feels like it has to be a big bang and you have to take it all out and, and put a new shiny system back in.

Loïc Le Fouest: But, but actually using data, understanding key priority customer journeys, you can slice things up and make your life easier, learn along the way and still start having an impact on, on customer early. And I know that Tom you've done loads of work in that space.

Tom Carpenter: Yeah. And taking it back to Adam's point about segmentation as well. I'm sure a lot of the people who are listening to this podcast now are thinking, yeah, we've got some segments, we understand our customers, but it's really important what you do with that as well. So you've got some really good insight and data into the different customers that you have in your organization. Those individual people still don't necessarily exist. Like they're a summation of your customer base. But what it helps to drive is ensuring that when you think about what you're designing, you're considering how it will impact different personas, like different ways in which people interact with you.

Tom Carpenter: And the ideal is you obviously design something which accounts for all of those personas in some ways, but at least you could work on one persona at a time, like how does this associate to 1%. So taking it back to your agile point as well Loïc, once you've got these personas, it's really important to keep using them.

Tom Carpenter: And then you can use them again to prioritize work as well. So for some, like say the more digitally savvy personas that you might have you want to build a really coherent digital experience. But for those who are digitally savvy. You need to ensure that you've got some consistency and experience for those users who might not use digital as much as others as well. So I guess that brings us on to, we've got some personas. We're data-driven, we're going to work in an agile way, but at the moment, I guess we still don't have too much of a sight of what the actual experience will be to the users. So how does someone get a view of that do you think?

How to get a view of the actual customer experience post-digital transformation  

Adam Uddin: So, from my perspective, it's all about ultimately visualizing what the customer's journey looks like end to end.

Adam Uddin: Whilst doing this, you really want to capture I mean, if we look at traditional customer journey maps, you want to look at the different phases or the different actions and activities that they go through. But in particular, you need to focus on what does their emotional experience look like along that journey?

Adam Uddin: Where are they having frustrations or pain points and where are they having a great experience? Where they're having a great experience that gives you an opportunity to leverage something, and you have a strength that you can play on, but in particular, you may be able to identify themes where customers are having a lot of frustrations, and that is going to help you prioritize your customer transformation efforts. 

Adam Uddin: A good technique we also often use is something called moments that matter, or moments of truth or whatever you call them. But that's ultimately the moment in that journey that has the opportunity and the potential to change the customer's impression of your brand. So if they had a really great experience there, it's like, yeah, I'm going to go tell all of my friends about this product or service, but vice versa.

Adam Uddin: If they had a really rubbish experience, they're never gonna use your service again. And they're gonna tell others not to and that again will help you prioritize 

Tom Carpenter: Yeah, I think that's a good one. And sometimes some of those things are external to you as well. So recognizing how that has an impact on the journey.

Tom Carpenter: So say like delivery is a classic for buying, purchasing a product. You would constitute that you don't have any say over that, but it really harms your interaction with the customer if they're expecting something next day and it doesn't turn up next day. So, yeah, I think that's a really good point in which it's working out what the really critical moments are and designing for those also helps you to prioritize, as you said. 

How employee experience ties into customer experience in digital transformation

Loïc Le Fouest: Yeah, one thing to add that we've not talked too much about here is at the end of the day, even if we're clear on this ideal customer journey, the emotions we want to deliver, which is the right starting point, and that helps us start understanding what is the right digital solution we will need.

Loïc Le Fouest: The people that will be driving that experience often behind the scene are going to be your employees. So as part of this journey, make sure you bring them into the conversation too. So we've brought the customer at the start of the conversation and made sure we understood them. Let's bring the employees and consider how their employee experience is going to revolve around the digital transformation, the relevant feedback they've had from their previous experiences working with the tech and with the customers on what should change and, and, and then get their buy-in also. They're going to be a crucial element in making sure you can deliver against this desired customer journey. So the last thing I'd say is yeah, definitely bring them into the conversation early as well.

Tom Carpenter: I really like that one. I can't remember the exact phrase, but British airways have a tagline, which is something like fly to serve. And I always like to think that everyone in an organization serves the customer. So you get the obvious ones that you probably train your customer service agents who speak to customers on the phone how to speak to customers, how to interact with them. But let's say there's an issue with your payment and you push them to the finance department and the finance department do their internal finance process. They're not thinking about the customer and that has a huge impact on individuals. So every single person in the organization, even the person who's cleaning the toilets or the person who is running the canteen, that still has a direct impact on your customers without even thinking about it. So I think employee experience is so, so important. And one thing that's really undervalued compared to other areas. 

Tom Carpenter: People always think about the direct interaction with customers as being the crucial part of employee experience. So like making sure your service agents, as I said, know what they're doing, but it's so much more than that. It's a really good point Loïc, thank you.

Adam Uddin: I completely agree from my perspective, I'm going to stay on this point for a little bit, actually, because we recently worked with a business to business organization, and I think this is also a poignant point because customer experience is just as relevant to B2B services as it is to B2C now. And in fact, B2C services have definitely set quite a high bar for the industry.

Adam Uddin: And, in terms of how you can ultimately empower your internal staff to help drive the customer experience. We were working with them in their supply chain processes to look at where are their elements in their processes or, or points that have the potential for automation. And what we identified is that by automating a particular part of the process, you don't just enhance the experience for the customer, because for instance, they can now self-serve and buy products and services online, but also it frees up your internal staff from basically spending their time on highly granule, very menial and administrative tasks.

Adam Uddin: And it allows them to re-prioritize and focus their efforts on something that's going to be a bit more meaningful. And that way you end up creating a good experience for your employees internally. And that also has a knock-on impact on creating a great customer experience.

Tom Carpenter: And something we're not thinking about here is a, I'm on a project right now where we're doing some user research. So we, do some user research and then we build some requirements. And at the moment we're going through an education exercise of the fact that it's not a one-off thing. It's not a part of the process. It's a constant iterative check with real customers and users about whether you're doing the right thing. 

Tom Carpenter: So, yeah. I like your point there Adam, cause I think it makes you think about the fact that constantly checking like, 'ah is this improving something, are we actually making a difference?' And the only way you can know that is to ask and to talk to customers.

Agile principles and getting feedback on the real customer experience in digital transformation is important

Loïc Le Fouest: Yeah, that's a really good point. Tom, I've seen a lot of teams work in that way, where in the upfront discovery they'll do some custom research, some user research, which is great. And then that gets used to build the initial set of requirements, but then they leave it there. Right?

Loïc Le Fouest: They don't actually use the agile principles of trying to deliver something, put it in front of a customer. It doesn't matter if it's not the final product. It can be any kind of prototype that you can use. But get feedback and use that to iterate on your requirements to just constantly find better ways of delivering that experience that you ultimately want them to have.

Adam Uddin: It really links back to our points earlier around being agile and trying to take a slicing approach. So start small before you try to scale something up and you can fail and you can fail fast and fail early. And that's fine because you're just taking a small chunk of something and testing it end to end to see if it works.

Adam Uddin: When you see it working, that's when you can be like, oh, that's great- now we can begin to scale this up.

Loïc Le Fouest: One of the reasons, I'm just thinking to again, some of my recent projects that organizations don't do this it's not always that they don't realize it's part of how you should be delivering. I think a lot of organizations appreciate that. I think they sometimes just don't give themselves a chance to win because they don't have almost the right skills and people in their teams. So they suddenly expect that we've said we're going to be customer-centric and deliver all these great experiences. And suddenly their people can come together and work in a completely new way without any support, coaching or with them changing their recruitment strategy.

Loïc Le Fouest: But there's a lot of key roles today that you need to have as part of your teams to deliver on your digital transformations. You need, as you were saying, Tom, your user researchers, you need interaction designers, content designers, service designers, there's all these really crucial roles that will keep you on track to making sure your customer is understood upfront, and then you keep them in the loop throughout. But these are roles that are more and more popular that weren't necessarily so clearly defined a couple of years ago. And that's part of the transition everyone's going through as, as we focus more on customers is also internally having the skills to be able to do that.

Tom Carpenter: Yeah. And I like that thinking Loïc because potentially listening to this podcast, you might think, right I've got a good process, and I understand what I need to do, but it's so much more than that. The culture of customer centricity for many organizations is quite alien and it is quite different. It's not about pushing things through a process, 'we've got this signed off, so we're going to deliver it'. It's about trying things and failing sometimes and seeing what works and being really confident in what you get out there is going to be effective. And to people who have listened to other podcasts before they'll know that I've struggled to make it through a podcast without talking about the double diamond.

Loïc Le Fouest: There it is. 

Adam Uddin: There we go.

Tom Carpenter: But I think like we're talking about this now the design thinking approach is exactly what we are talking about here. So that's taking things through iterations and being comfortable with finding things out and seeing if they work and being really sure that you understand the customer's problem. And then once you're really sure you understand the problem, really narrowing down the solution again, taking that out there and testing it with customers.

Tom Carpenter: So what you deliver, you know, it's going to be impactful.

Adam Uddin: Absolutely. I think with models such as design thinking and double diamond it's also always worth addressing that it's not linear.

Adam Uddin: It's supposed to be iterative. It's not a waterfall type approach. You can jump from empathizing with a customer to testing something out, to prototyping something, to jumping back to another part of the model. So there's nothing wrong with that. And that's the entire purpose of these types of models.

Tom Carpenter: And what I'd say is if you don't believe us, give it a go. And if you wanted to check whether it was effective or not, then we might suggest that maybe you could measure the change, in some aspects of the experience. How might you recommend to some of our listeners that they measure the success of these projects? What's important to think about there?

How to measure the success of your transformation program

Adam Uddin: So from my perspective, I think it's always critical to pick a few key top metrics that you want to measure and that you want to use to track the success of your transformation program. 

Adam Uddin: If you try to pick too many metrics, you'll just muddy the waters and you end up finding that you either can't measure them or you can't meet all of those different success criteria.

Adam Uddin: So definitely pick a few top three, something like that. Again, worth linking those metrics back to what you're trying to achieve. So if, for instance, sometimes we play around with different types of CX metrics, such as net promoter scores and customer satisfaction. It depends on if you're trying to find out how likely the customer to recommend your product or service to a colleague, or are you trying to find out how satisfied or dissatisfied they are with your product or service, or maybe you want to know why all of your customers are leaving and that then you want to look at things like churn rates and attrition rates.

Adam Uddin: So definitely think about what you're trying to achieve and then select a few key top metrics and prioritize those.

Loïc Le Fouest: Yeah, I could completely second that. And it does depend a little bit on the overall type of experience you're trying to deliver to your customers. 

Loïc Le Fouest: One metric I really like is customer effort score. There's a massive correlation today between the amount of effort a customer has to go through to engage with your product or service in a digital world. And whether they're likely to come back again. So that's a really good one for me. 

Loïc Le Fouest: Equally in some situations you want to create a bit of friction, a bit of effort. So all of these metrics have to be understood in terms of what they're allowing you to derive and using that insight to then make the right decisions. It's not just a blanket decision. You can't just say we're tracking NPS, we're great. Because actually, if that's all you're looking at, NPS, you're really going to struggle to make the right improvements because you don't have visibility of where throughout the end to end customer journey, you are influencing those emotions that ended up in that final number, right?

Tom Carpenter: Yeah. I like that. Cause you obviously do want your customers to be satisfied and you want the effort to be low, so those metrics are really, really important. But in isolation they don't tell you enough about the experience. So let's say you talk to a support agent and, probably most of us are familiar with this - you get a feedback form afterwards and it says ' rate the agent from one to 10'. And 'did you have a good experience', and that gives you a score, but it doesn't really give you the data on what actually happened in the interactions.

Tom Carpenter: So combining that with what really happened and building the picture of the customer's experience, I think is really important. So, Adam, you were mentioning some of these things before, but let's say you have a subscription business then some of the most important things to work out are churn. 

Tom Carpenter: So yeah do you lose customers? Ultimately, that's giving you an indication of the experience. But also when they renew are they renewing for higher value, are they interacting with you? How much do they interact with you? How engaged are they? Also gives you an indication. So it's important to think not just about the satisfaction and promoter scores in isolation, but the other things that you say, like effort and leading indicators.

Loïc Le Fouest: Yeah. And just as you were saying that Tom, I think an important thing to consider going into these digital transformations is probably the wider data angle.

Loïc Le Fouest: So yes, like Adam said, make sure you've got a north star, a couple of clear metrics. Tom you're showing how you can actually then underpin those by the more relevant, almost operational ones that allow you to get that additional visibility. 

Loïc Le Fouest: But as an organization, these digital transformations should allow you to be more intentional about what data you're collecting at every stage, at every touch point.

Loïc Le Fouest: Maybe it was a lot of data points where legacy systems couldn't capture or they were all captured in silos and you couldn't bring them together to generate that insight. So, bring in a data architect into the conversation, make sure you're using this opportunity to get your data in the right states that allows you to make the right decisions for your customers. Because that is becoming just a massive differentiator in terms of experiences is organizations that are able to get that right level of data, act on it quickly and constantly make changes because they're just better at understanding their customers at the end of the day.

Leverage existing data to drive the transformation

Adam Uddin: Yeah, I'd agree with that Loïc. And also, I don't think it needs to necessarily be revolutionary. Like you can figure out ways to leverage existing data.

Adam Uddin: So for instance, I've come across cases where we've worked with businesses and they collect a bunch of CRM data, but then they don't necessarily do anything with that. So maybe as part of your customer transformation program, you want to figure out, okay, this data that we're collecting, rather than it just being an administrative effort and task, how can we actually leverage this to understand a bit more about our customers and use that to drive the transformation?

Tom Carpenter: Can you think of anything I guess so, examples or anything where people have done some CX, driven change and it's not been effective? Or is there anything to watch out for do you think?

Using technology isn't always the answer

Loïc Le Fouest: The first one that comes to mind was around some fancy tech, you know, people see some new gadgets coming out and they think, great we need that.

Tom Carpenter: You're talking about chatbots aren't you? Everyone loves a chatbot.

Loïc Le Fouest: A little chatbot, exactly. 

Loïc Le Fouest: But people love just opening new channels generally speaking. 'Ah, we're going to get a chatbot here. We're going to offer this new way of interacting through this kind of social media', and it doesn't always work out.

Loïc Le Fouest: It's not 'cause another organization is doing it well, and it's working for them that you can just go ahead and copy it without really thinking again, at the end of the day, how is this digital solution supporting what you're trying to achieve from an experience and how well you're able to support that as a business.

Loïc Le Fouest: So you need to challenge yourself also to not just copy any of the fancy new tech and gadgets that other people are bringing into their organizations and work out what really you need. And what's gonna make a difference for your customers.

Adam Uddin: I completely agree. I think also if you have a bunch of channels, you want to ensure that they all work together and they talk to each other, and that's how you create a seamless omnichannel experience for the customer. 

Adam Uddin: Often organizations introduce new channels and a customer might interact through one channel and then they pick it up through another channel and the customer service agent doesn't have a record or an overview of what the initial request was or what the previous problem was, and that doesn't create a great experience for the customer. They obviously want to feel as though it's seamless and they want to feel as though they're being listened to and that their problem is heard and understood.

Adam Uddin: So the better you can make those channels or talk to each other and create that omnichannel experience the better for the customer.

Tom Carpenter: Yeah. And I think as well as being customer-centric, we do also endorse product centricity. So I guess what we're not saying is if you think there's a great tech out there that has some value, don't not do that, but do that in a way where you're confident it is going to add value and it is the right thing to be focusing on.

Tom Carpenter: As probably most of you know, around the office, I've been refurbing my bathroom recently, and it's probably pretty much all I talk about. I won't name the name of the bathroom shop, but I've had to use a chat bot and talk to a chat agent because the information that's being displayed to me in my account is wrong.

Tom Carpenter: I can't see the right information. It looks like it's going to be sent to the wrong delivery address. It looks like the wrong billing address is there because they've not got the basics right. And that's caused me to have to engage with customer support as a result. 

Tom Carpenter: So I think that's a great example of where someone's done kind of what we're saying here, they've gone for the 'ooh yeah, we'll get a chat bot, that will sort our problems out', but they've not thought about like the basics of the problem. So my experience is worse, if anything than it would have been. Also, get a bathroom designer and don't do it yourself would be my recommendation.

Loïc Le Fouest: 9:48am, and I've heard this story three times.

Tom Carpenter: It's a pain in my life right now. 

Tom Carpenter: So was there anything else you think our listeners should, should think about in terms of digital transformation? We've covered quite a lot.

Final considerations 

Loïc Le Fouest: I'd just reinforce that final point. I think we were making. 

Loïc Le Fouest: Trying to summarize it, I guess. Make sure you're balancing your digital transformation, both looking at how it's going to improve directly the experience of your customers, but also think about how you can use your digital transformation to improve your understanding of your customers. Because that balance is really important. 

Loïc Le Fouest: The better you're able to understand them because you've got the right CRM, tools in place and the right processes that sit beneath the technology to make the most of it are just as important of actually what the customer is seeing, because you need to get that understanding to succeed really going forward. So balance those two set sides I'd say when you're shaping your digital transformation.

Adam Uddin: I agree with that. And I think I'm going to come back to our original point around, don't try to do everything, focus your efforts, and prioritize so that your customers don't end up feeling like Tom and his bathroom.

Tom Carpenter: It's awful I can tell you. 

Tom Carpenter: Cool so thank you so much for listening to us today. Just a quick summary from end to end of what we've spoken about. So don't try and play everywhere, try and focus on what you're going to do. Make sure you really understand your customers and you do that by segmenting them and putting them into personas and really use those to tailor your experiences or prioritize your efforts.

Tom Carpenter: Be agile. Don't try and do everything, be iterative. Of course use a double diamond, a bit of design thinking.

Tom Carpenter: Test things along the journey, prototype, get stuff out there, don't be scared to do things that are wrong. Minimize the effort as you're doing that.

Tom Carpenter: Also make sure you understand your customer journey and where they're interacting with you. Moments that matter, and the moments of truth- really important that you understand where those are and how that will impact a customer's experience with you. 

Tom Carpenter: If you change things, make sure that you understand how that impacts things like C-SAT and NPS of course, but also look at deeper metrics. So you can really measure the success of your change. It's not just about satisfaction at certain points. There are also leading indicators, such as renewal rates, for example, when we talk about subscription, that will drive that. 

Tom Carpenter: And as we said towards the end, focus on things that make a difference to the customer, not just necessarily things that are new in the market, and really sure that you understand the impact of that. 

Tom Carpenter: There are four episodes in the series about business, organization and technology as well. We have been talking today about what to think about from a customer's perspective. Thank you very much, Adam and Loïc for joining us, and we welcome you back soon.

Adam Uddin: No worries. Thanks for having us.

This podcast series started with four key areas to think about to ensure a successful digital transformation. This episode gave a deep dive into 1/4: how to consider customer experience in digital transformation. To listen to the rest of the deep dives, visit us on SoundCloud. If you'd like to speak to Tom, Lindsay, Moray or Chris about anything discussed, please get in touch!

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